Please support us by disabling your adblock on our domain!

4-4-1-1 (DM) The Iron Lotus



  • I've been working on this for a while and I'll post a link to my thread I started on FM Base. It didn't get much attention, I'm hoping that's because I'm not a well known member, and not because of disappointment!

    I've put a lot of instructions on there regarding yellow cards and set pieces etc but that's for fine tuning to get a few extra points.
    For plug and play just use the Iron Lotus as is and I'm confident it can do well (lots of screenies to prove it).

    Please take a look and see how you get on or try some tweaks. I'm also happy for you to whack it straight onto the testing league if you want to. If there is any space/time.

    Just dowload The Iron Lotus for testing purposes, Move The Bus Isn't Needed

    http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-17-tactics/363471-4-4-1-1-2dm-iron-lotus-consistent-overachiever-great-defense.html



  • Interesting tactical choice with two Regista's.
    However, why so many personal instructions?
    The more instructions you give the players, the more mental ability they need.
    Specially at lower levels, the players will lack the concentration and stamina to go all 90+ minutes.
    And on top of that, the hard tackling... 😡
    ...A lot of yellow and red cards in your future, I see. πŸ˜†

    "Hard tackling is the path to red cards, red cards lead to the team being down to 10 men, the team being a man down can lead to losses and frustration"



  • The Player Instructions are 100% required for this to work, the screen shots in the link show its worked with lower level players (e.g. South Africa, China) so I so I don't think the mental ability is an issue.
    The hard tackling I usually manage in match by changing it to normal for players on a yellow, but I've simmed seasons before and haven't had bad problems with discipline. You may pick up reds here and there but hard tackling wins you more games than it loses I think.



  • The last bit of my post above was more or less a little 'Yoda' joke. πŸ™‚
    I've come to the understanding that hard tackling/get stuck in is practical a standard setting in this years FM.
    However I rarely play with it, as I find it unethical in real life.
    Players get injured, players get banned from matches, teams gets fined, and teams get a bad reputation.
    I hope that it is something that SI will simulate better in future FMs.
    Or introduce different ways in which to play harder on the pitch.



  • @Martin-Bahn Agreed in reality hard tackling would have its downfalls, e.g. diving in when it's better to stay on your feat.
    But in the interests of making the most effective FM17 tactics hard tackling is a must.



  • "But in the interests of making the most effective FM17 tactics hard tackling is a must."

    I disagree.
    I've seen several Plug & Play tactics that work just fine without the use of either hard tackling or the get stuck in settings.
    Each year the Football Manager match engine becomes more and more advanced, in order to mirror how it works in reality.
    When you watch real matches, you will notice how managers chop & change during the games, some minor changes, some major changes, throughout the game, depending on how the opponent plays, and depending on how the game progresses.

    Finding that one tactic, that have your team win 90-95% of your games, without having to micromanage your team that much during games, simply, is not realistic.
    I play my games with the intention, that this is also how I would have managed my team in real life.
    Maybe that is also why I love LLM πŸ˜†

    Almost all successful tactics in MrL's testing league are using hard tackling/get stuck in.
    Finding a tactic, that does not have to rely on hard tackles, and/or get stuck in, and still gets the job done, purely because of a good tactic, manager and players is my sole purpose in FM life. πŸ™‚

    PS. If hard tackling/get stuck in is a must to have an effective tactic. Player search filters would be easy.
    Just look for;

    • High Aggression
    • High Bravery
    • High Tackling
    • High Concentration
    • High Strength
    • High Sportsmanship
    • High Professionalism

    Basically a team of 1 goalkeeper and 10 ball winning midfielders... πŸ˜†

    ...I feel that I have ranted on long enough, and that most of what I've written is out of context, so just ignore 90% of this...
    haha πŸ˜†



  • @Martin-Bahn You can definitely make strong tactics that don't use hard tackling, just I can't imagine them being as good as a tactic that uses it. In FM17 it basically means "Win the ball back quicker".
    With every FM there is usually a few roles/PI/TI that are overpowered and recently hard tackling is one of these.

    In fact I'd be interested in seeing how this tactic does without hard tackling if you want to test it? It has plenty other strengths about it.

    And I totally agree that altering tactics dependant on opposition/form/what's available is the strongest way to play (and most realistic) but this testing league appears to be for finding the best plug and play, hence the tactic offered.

    And don't worry about the long messages I enjoy the discussion πŸ˜€



  • "Win the ball back quicker"
    ..Isnt that more about closing down/pressure higher up the pitch? Like Klopp's Gegenpressing?

    And yes I agree that some instructions/roles are certainly better in some versions of FM. Like Fullbacks in FM16, and Inverted Wingbacks in FM17. I even remember the Diablo tactic back in CM3. πŸ˜†

    I've done some of my own testing in FM17.
    I've simulated a whole season, same tactic, same players with same instructions all the way through.
    I had 3 central midfielders in a narrow 4-3-3 all be ball winning midfielders on support.
    Only difference was, in the first attempt all 3 mids had 20 tackling, 15 aggression, 20 sportsmanship and 1 dirtyness.
    Basically that means they should know how to tackle, and not be going in 2-footed in the challenges.
    38 games later, the total amount of cards from all 3 players was;
    79 yellow cards and 13 red cards.

    Second go, I had all 3 mids have 10 tacking, 20 aggression, 10 sportsmanship and 15 dirtyness.
    So I automatically assume that they would be killing opponent players, and almost always be seeing cards.
    38 games later, the total amount of cards from all 3 players was;
    86 yellow cards and 12 red cards.

    7 yellow cards more and 1 red card less.

    Now this is not an exact science - but that would mean that there is something wrong in the match engine.
    It doesnt fully use the attributes correctly, or at least not in how I understand them.
    So to me, that means that hard tackling and get stuck in, is not something I want in all my players, since the ME doesnt really seem care if a player has good or average tackling, is more or less aggressive. πŸ˜†

    I love to do tests in FM. And would love to do a more extensive test, but I simply do not have the time.



  • @Martin-Bahn
    The getting stuck in makes players go for the tackle, that's what I meant by wins ball back quicker.

    I agree it's silly to have tackle harder always work better but that's the match engine we're using and my aim for this tactic was to get the best possible results using whatever was at my disposal.


  • Admin

    @martyb36 Added, it will be tested πŸ˜‰



  • @Fra Ok thanks πŸ‘Œ



  • I am probably a testaholic.

    A few FMs ago someone suggested my tactics, after a patch change, worked better with hard tackling.

    Over a season there is very little change in card count using hard tackling. Most of cards relate to player attributes.

    With the FM08 ME I used tactics with no CF.

    Apart from Lovesleeper, I don't think there is one person providing tactics and explaining why and when to change.

    i also do not believe the ME can ever be realistic until the AI stop constantly changing tactics, and start to develop styles of play.


 

You may also be interested in:

Please consider donating us if you like our service. The donations will be invested into the site to make it better.

Looks like your connection to MrLTactics.com was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.