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4123 strikerless formation



  • Hello everybody

    I wanted to share a tactic i have been tweaking and developing. It is a strikerless formation that scores a fair amount of goals and helped me to win the champions league with newcastle over barcelona - first year using tactic and 3rd year in the save

    0_1481918959536_41230_B83FFAEA-CBDB-405F-AB79-6D8C54B6CA7B.fmf
    0_1481919025550_formation with roles.png

    Instructions
    0_1481919465305_Screen Shot 2016-12-16 at 3.17.04 PM.png

    the only opp instructions I use are for the GK
    tight marking always - closing down always - hard tackling and show onto weaker foot

    Goal types
    0_1481919136447_goal types.png

    goal assists
    0_1481919157823_goal assists.png

    As you can see very few crosses and lots of through balls. exciting!

    so far this season i have had many injuries carry over form last season and international games - including my best player KUKI
    0_1481920624217_injuries.png
    No Bother!
    first 2 games this season
    The milan game is the super cup - middlesborough game is first game of PL
    1_1481920705252_supercup.png 0_1481920705252_first game of season.png

    The barca game in champs league final
    0_1481918978676_champs vs barca with stats.png
    Picture postgame to show it is in fact champs league final with 2-1 result
    0_1481919280041_post game champs league.png

    Defensively this tactic is very strong and it limited the very powerful trio of barcelona to few shots on target

    The heart of this tactic is sheer numbers bombing forward to score.
    spend money on these positions if possible
    SS's and AP need to be able to dribble and finish - pace is helpful LOTS of 1-1 chances vs opponents.
    The CMs need pace and stamina. finishing is a bonus they will make killer runs through the heart of opposition all game long

    my player of the season last year was kuki playing SS
    2_1481919739227_kuki PFA young player.png 1_1481919739226_kuki PFA.png 0_1481919739226_kuki Football writers footballer.png

    Training
    0_1481919792113_training.png
    This season just started and I had to purchase new players so I wanted high tactical familiarity to start the season.
    In preseason without many transfers I prefer fitness very high until the week before the first game. You can choose your own preferred general training

    Main focus should be attacking movement - I get mixed results with all other settings. I would rather my team knows how to score.
    Individual training to role - in addition all players should either be tutoring/learning new ppm or receiving additional focus (attacking players Off the ball - defensive players positioning)

    only players i do not have position/role focus are players under the age of 22. They only receive additional focus training (attacking players Off the ball - defensive players positioning) and get tutored by senior member of staff - if no suitable tutor is found/available they should be learning a PPM

    As you can see I have not set a rest day - I set my own rest instructions
    immediately following a game (before post game presser or advancement of time)
    go to tactic screen all players with
    74% or less fitness rest 3 days
    75% - 79% rest 2 days
    80% - 84% rest 1 day
    This of course is always subject to scheduling. Example - if a game is in 2 days never schedule 3 days of rest for a player and have said player play in the game or on bench. I usually set rest days for the amount of time i have between next game. If a player has 60% fitness and a game is in 3 days i set 2 days of rest.

    Team talks
    last FM I found these team talks and use them for pregame - halftime - and post game talks
    All credit to https://community.sigames.com/profile/74113-fenech/

    2_1481920270780_Pregame talk.png 1_1481920270780_half time.png 0_1481920270779_end game + negative reactions.png

    Individual players
    during game at half anyone with player rating 6.5 or below - assertive i am not happy
    if really bad at half 6.3 or less take off immediately
    anyone at half with 9.0 or better assertive - very happy
    post game same individual talks - except anyone 9.0 passionately delighted

    after game always fine anyone who had a player rating of 6.3 or below 1 weeks wages
    if someone got a direct red always fine 1 weeks wages
    if someone got a red as a result of multiple yellows - issue a warning

    always praise players based on form - 7.6 or higher it is important to only praise players once a month no more.
    also if multiple players have a rating of 7.6 or higher choose best 4 players never praise more than 4 players in one month.

    If there is something i missed please let me know and i will post more pictures/stats and include more information.
    I have player filters and staff filters that i use if anyone is interested.

    Other random screen shots/results
    2_1481921648387_champs vs PSG.png 1_1481921648387_AGG vs inter.png 0_1481921648386_5 team of the season.png



  • forgot to include schedule with results
    0_1481922126727_Screen Shot 2016-12-16 at 4.01.41 PM.png



  • this looks amazing mate, will give this a go and hope to see those through balls 🙂

    any suggestion for specific PPM's? also who scores the most the AP or the shadow strikers?

    thanks!



  • @markovic said in 4123 strikerless formation:

    any suggestion for specific PPM's? also who scores the most the AP or the shadow strikers?

    I'm still working on ideal PPM's

    for instance last season i signed munir in january and he has a lot of PPM's (moves into channels, shoots form distance, curls ball, cuts inside from both wings) playing in SS position last season he played 29 games and had 10 goals and 7 assists (not a great return in terms of goals/assists - with higher tactical familiarity this season he has 4 goals and 1 assist in 6 games)
    Meanwhile kuki (1 PPM shoots from distance - i got him to drop plays with back to goal) had 25 goals and 19 assists in 48 games)

    Ayoze Perez last season was unbelieave mostly playing at AP0_1482001850792_Screen Shot 2016-12-17 at 2.10.27 PM.png
    His PPM's runs with ball through center, tries killer balls often, likes to beat offside trap, plays one-two's

    sorry for the long winded answer it just seems to me key stats for each role/position are more important than PPM's - which I think is promising as it becomes easier to find ideal transfer targets.

    Here is a screen shot of this season
    0_1482002134203_Screen Shot 2016-12-17 at 2.15.11 PM.png
    Chalobah 5 goals 3 assists playing CM in 6 games
    Cristante 3 goals 1 assist in 6 gams as CM
    I purchased Suso for depth behind ayoze and he was awesome while ayoze was injured. Suso has more traditional AP stats compared to Ayoze and as you can see in 5 games he has 7 assists and 3 goals.
    Big money signing Dele Alli, 51 million pounds, (i wanted him to become a CM and phase out cristante) has played all his games at SS (again too many injuries carrying over from summer break) and as an SS he has 3 goals and 1 assist in 4 games. He has only made 1 substitute appearance at CM.



  • Update 12/18/2016

    OK quick update to tactic and more evidence of this formations results.
    0_1482089992292_41230 set pieces_43349F56-EAB6-42E3-8B17-6B55834EC462.fmf

    Above is the new tactic. The only change i have made is to the set pieces.
    *something i have tried out in the last 3 games is an opposition instruction that applies to opponents CB's - close down and show onto weaker foot - opponent cb's often cut out through balls but many of them have poor technical skills and can be caught on the ball by your amc's/mc's.
    In my save this current season I have made it to November 1st 2019
    16 competitive matches 14 wins 2 draws 0 losses !
    0_1482090796440_schedule only game missing is a 1-1 draw with celtic.png
    0_1482091737692_ 18 games unbeaten.png
    The only game not included in this seasons schedule list was a friendly - a 1-1 draw with celtic.
    Sure the schedule/fixtures so far have been kind to me but I have used a lot of squad rotation to keep all players happy and able to perform.
    0_1482091144352_squad view.png
    0_1482091171125_rest of squad view by appearance.png
    2 images to show my squad sorted by appearance.
    quick notes rob holding is being played as a half back - matt ritchie is playing as a CM - delli alli has mostly been played at SS but recently started his transition to CM to take cristante's starting job. kuki has been injured and hasn't featured often this season.
    don't be afraid to play players out of position as long as they have stats for that position give them game time and have faith in them.

    heres a general idea of what each player/position will do in each game
    0_1482091548345_general idea of what each player:role provides in each game.png
    fullbacks run all game long - nearly 10 miles a game
    Cb's and HB will cut out opposition attacks quickly and pass it to the main playmakers the midfield 5 who play quick passes and run into space in the opposition half all game long.

    i'm not sure if what follows here is something that will be popular but here is a quick link to youtube to show some examples of play - sorry for the choppiness of the videos but my computer is pretty shit and can't really handle quicktime recording's while the game is being played

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MthMerp_X2A&list=PLJXvQq136vZiI1vDs7YZjnVYgE_N0ByeB&index=3



  • hi jpassal1

    can you post the image of the OI?

    cheers



  • @tragic_epilogue

    Yeah no problem - (i responded to your question on the fm-base thread but will post the answer here as well just so it gets more visibility)

    0_1482120476474_oppo instructions.png

    I have used the GK instructions for every match i have played for this tactic and only recently (maybe the last 3/4 games) used the DC instructions

    When/if you play this tactic you see your team is always trying to play a pass behind the defense.

    The opposing CB's often cut out these through balls so I have recently been trying to win the ball back from the cb's in the oppositions half/final third. We all know our own defenders have let us down in certain situations in FM so I wanted to get some revenge on the AI. Cb's physical (balance/agility/acceleration) and technical (dribbling/passing) stats can leave them exposed on the ball and i wanted to catch them out and create more chances for my team.

    here are goal assists from my last 5 games (around the time i implemented the CB instructions)
    0_1482120559072_last 5 matches.png

    a single goal off an an opposition mistake, not exactly conclusive evidence this closing down is working against the oppositions cb's.
    haha anyway i haven't noticed any negative effects so i might just keep them in for the odd chance i can get the upper hand

    good luck with the tactic! please share any advice/changes you would recommend with me 😀



  • This needs an official test ASAP... The best tactic I've been using so far with the update ME.



  • @joepa Can you link me through to the FM-BASE forum thread? I want to trawl through the comments. Cheers



  • @marksj2 http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-17-tactics/360890-tactics-differant-forums-{around-world}-31.html#post3054776

    That's where the conversation for the tactic starts. There is plenty of information about roles/stats/filters for the players and some suggested tweaks to mentality/roles

    Please feel free to ask any questions you may have and as always feel free to share results or tweaks. 😁

    this is from a PM with Galegol; "One thing I have to say, your tactic is solid as a rock on defense. In the 8 games I played so far with São Paulo FC we didn't concede a single goal, not even against Barcelona in the World Club Championship final."
    alt text



  • @papi Thank you!

    I hope this gets tested soon I can have more info to analyze and see how it can be improved



  • Cheers @joepa , I think im currently getting fm'd whilst trying to implement this tactic. I lost 3-1 to Sunderland while my team ball watched, and I had my goal keeper roll the ball to a striker who slotted it home haha. ill let you know how it goes.



  • @joepa After my initial struggles it is working amazing! I'm at work at the moment but will post my results tonight. I've found that this tactic is devastating to big teams who come out and attack you and leave just that bit extra room at the back (5/6 - 0 Dortmund, 4/5 - 0 Man City, 4-0 Man Utd). Also once you bag a goal against a team who is playing conservatively they change their mentality a bit more and you start banging in goals!

    A weakness that I have found are on defending free kicks that are out of shooting range and to the side. There is always an opponent player floating midway between the halfway line and your box who is unmarked. They generally receive the pass and then pass it out wide to the winger on the far side who dribbles to the line, crosses it in and then you are down a goal. Something that I will change it have someone marking them.

    Next season I'm going to change my pitch size to the smallest as this play will suit it greatly. Another thing I am interested in trying is inverted wing backs, I'm certainly no tactician but I'm just interested in seeing how they work with different formations. I think they will improve me defensively but not too sure as width will be minimal, even though this tactic doesn't require width. Thoughts? I've had reasonably good defense but not as good as your posts.



  • @marksj2 Thanks for sticking with the formation and I'm happy for your results against big teams!

    Christmas/New Years is a really hectic time for me (work @ a restaurant) and trying to find time to game/test is gonna be hard these next couple weeks. But something I hope to do is figure out ways to quickly score a goal or put an opponent under pressure and force them to play - I'm not sure if this requires changing the mentality/roles but hope to figure something out soon

    Thank you for the FK input I'm constantly tweaking them and trying to find weaknesses/strengths of AI defending/attacking so some of my routines may be a bit odd/terrible. I will look into your suggestions on defending FK's.

    Small Pitch size is a great suggestion - In my 3 years @ newcastle this save the groundsmen never asked about it - I assumed they got rid of the feature or maybe I just never noticed/overlooked them (inbox is usually full of scouting reports).

    Inverted wingbacks are really interesting to me - Watching Man City's opening game and how chelsea manage to get Alonso/Moses into the area and create danger is an area this tactic can improve. I've never used IWB's and not sure how implement them but hopefully can figure out how to get just a bit more width out of this formation.



  • @marksj2 said in 4123 strikerless formation:

    A weakness that I have found are on defending free kicks that are out of shooting range and to the side. There is always an opponent player floating midway between the halfway line and your box who is unmarked. They generally receive the pass and then pass it out wide to the winger on the far side who dribbles to the line, crosses it in and then you are down a goal. Something that I will change it have someone marking them.

    got to play a couple games before going to work - would you believe i conceded this exact goal ahaha

    I'm working on different defending set piece plays and hoping to upload/incorporate them after christmas



  • @joepa haha so classic. Not too dissimilar from the ones I concede. Not a lot you can do to defend your one I dont think!

    As I said before, here are my results! http://imgur.com/qQ1OLRT



  • @joepa So I changed the WB's to IWB's and WOW! I havent conceded in 9 games!!! You've gotta try it. With the half back in play, they dont come in too far but tighten up and focus the play in the middle. http://imgur.com/a/lNW3o

    Ive also found that when I know an opponent is looking to play defensively against me that if I play attacking from the start I generally bag a goal and then switch the mentality back to standard. When I go 2 up I think ill switch back to attacking to bag a few more (Once my amazing defensive streak comes to an end).

    p.s. Ive been using your tactic for all of those games in the screenshot + 2 games agains Man U and Arsenal which were loses when I was implementing the tactic.



  • can you post the instructions of IWB's?

    cheers



  • @tragic_epilogue Literally just changed the WB's to IWB's nothing else, so every thing else is the same as the original set up.


 

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